#0, John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 05:55 PM
40
17 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You started to say
18 about the most significant thing was the blow
19 to the head preceded the strangulation. Was
20 that, have you talked to any particular
21 expert about that?
22 A. I haven't talked directly to any
23 particular expert about that. That was the
24 analysis I got back through Pat Burke, I
25 believe. 41
1 A. And do you know who --
2 MR. WOOD: Just so it is clear,
3 I think you said preceded strangulation. I
4 think you misspoke.
5 MR. KANE: If the blow, no I
6 think that's what you said. You said, I am
7 sorry.
8 MR. WOOD: Hold on. Let's make
9 sure. He said precisely, the most
10 significant piece of information was that
11 they felt was the blow to the death was
12 after the death, and your question, I think
13 inadvertently you said preceded the
14 strangulation, which is not what he said.
15 MR. KANE: You are right. That's
16 not what I meant. Okay.
17 Q. (By Mr. Kane) But you got this
18 information through Pat Burke. Have you ever
19 sought to talk to the people that he got the
20 information from?
21 A. No, because I wanted to stay
22 independent of them. The objective was, when
23 we presented these people up in January, was
24 to present highly qualified experts that
25 would help provide information to find the 42
1 killer.
2 Q. But there are people in addition
3 to Kris Sperry?
4 A. Yes. I don't remember their
5 names, but it seems to me there were
6 several.
7 Q. But you could get access to who
8 they were and provide us with those?
9 A. As far as I know, yes.
10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, I know
11 that you were asked questions about a black
12 metal flashlight that was found in the house.
13 We have developed, since '98, some
14 information about that flashlight I would
15 like to ask you just a little bit about.
16 Is that the flashlight that you
17 habitually used, say for example, if your
18 power went out and you had candles lit in
19 your house? Do you know?
20 A. Not necessarily. And I don't
21 know that that was my flashlight. The
22 picture I saw, and I think I commented at
23 the time, was that that one was very dirty.
24 My flashlight, while it looked to be the
25 same size, mine was clean. And my son gave 43
1 it to me for a present. So that was the
2 issue that I saw. It kind of looks like
3 mine, but it's certainly filthy.
4 Q. May not be?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. Let's talk about, I want to ask
7 this so it is clear for you. The flashlight
8 your son gave you, whether the light in the
9 picture is that or not, but that flashlight,
10 the one you received as a gift from your
11 son, was that the light that, if you had
12 power failures, routinely, that is the first
13 thing you would grab?
14 A. No, not necessarily.
15 Q. Not necessarily?
16 A. Because we kept it -- it was a
17 big flashlight. We kept it, I believe,
18 normally in the drawer down that little sink
19 area in the back hall. I don't even
20 remember if I had a flashlight by my bedside
21 or not. Now PLEASE tell me how this questioning would help identify the killer. Kane misspoke and was corrected by Lin Wood - - was it an honest error or an attempt to confuse the Ramseys and get some conflicting statements that could be twisted when LE was leaking to the press? I can't be sure but I don't care for Kane and don't honestly feel inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not knowing what else has happened under his watch. Myself, I think JonBenét was choked, hit on the head and then choked some more - - so I couldn't say the blow to the head came before or after - - and given a choice, I would be stuck. Imagine the BORG twist on that! As for the flashlight, the Ramseys were not shown the flashlight, just a photo of it. I think it is unreasonable to show the Ramseys a photo of a flashlight that is filthy and expect them to positively identify it as one they had that was nearly new, clean. As for "the first thing you would grab...", I would ask how often their power went out. My power rarely goes out and what I grab first largely depends on where I am when the power goes out!
#1, RE: John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 06:00 PM
In response to message #0
43
22 Q. (By Mr. Kane) The documentary that
23 was done by Michael Tracy in 1998 sometime,
24 did you have any say in any aspect of that
25 documentary? 44
1 A. No.
2 Q. I think previously you said the
3 one thing you did was you insisted that it
4 wouldn't be shown before --
5 A. Well, there was an issue about,
6 if it was, if the grand jury was in session
7 or convened or something that we had the
8 right to tell them not to put it on. That
9 was the only thing, I believe, that we --
10 Q. Did you have any discussions with
11 anybody about when it was aired just a
12 couple of weeks before the grand jury
13 started?
14 A. Did I have discussions? No, not
15 that I remember. Well, THIS surely was going to help identify the killer!!! What a waste of time this was - as I see it, this was going after the Ramseys, not working the case. A child was dead, the killer unpunished - - and the cops were not asking about the Candy Canes or the tips the Ramseys had received - - they wanted to know if the Ramseys talked to anyone about when Mills' and Tracey's documentary would air. Good Grief! I am glad I can share this now - - let everyone see the truth - - see what Kane was interested in - - see why it was important the case be given to a new set of investigators who were not bogged down with a theory that led to nothing but questions like this.
#2, RE: John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 06:08 PM
In response to message #1
44
16 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, one of
17 the things that you were asked about during
18 your interview in 1998 I would like to
19 follow up on is some new information, are
20 some questions about a Santa Bear that was
21 found on your daughter's bed. Do you
22 remember that?
23 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
24 Q. Do you remember the bear?
25 A. (Witness nodded head 45
1 affirmatively).
2 Q. At the time you were interviewed,
3 you stated to the effect that you did not
4 recognize it?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And I am wondering, we have
7 identified the source, we know how it got to
8 JonBenet through a pageant on December 14.
9 MR. WOOD: Well, you say that,
10 but we're not -- we haven't seen the
11 photographs or video.
12 MR. LEVIN: I understand that.
13 Q. (By Mr. Levin) It is our belief.
14 Are you comfortable with that
15 phrasing?
16 MR. WOOD: I would be more
17 comfortable if you are going to question him
18 about something that you give him the right
19 to look at it yourself, but, you know, since
20 you, for whatever reason, choose not to do
21 so, I accept you state that is your belief.
22 Q. (By Mr. Levin) It is my belief,
23 Mr. Ramsey, that she received that as a
24 prize in a pageant on December 14, 1996.
25 And I am wondering if, do you recall being, 46
1 first of all, were you at her last pageant
2 in December? Do you remember?
3 A. I got there late. I usually
4 would try to go for the talent portion. And
5 they were running early. I was late. I
6 got there after it was over. So I was
7 there, but not for very long.
8 Q. And the follow-up question to that
9 would be, if my belief is correct that you
10 received that bear at that pageant, does that
11 maybe jog your memory as to the origin of
12 it?
13 A. No.
14 MR. WOOD: I don't think you
15 meant to say that he received it.
16 THE WITNESS: We have no idea
17 whether that was significant or not, that
18 bear. I mean, you know, it was, when I was
19 shown those photos, we were looking for
20 anything that looked out of the ordinary.
21 I mean, we had fully expected
22 that, if someone had given it to her, that
23 they would come forward and say, oh, yes, I
24 gave that to JonBenet. That explains that.
25 Q. (By Mr. Levin) And you understand 47
1 of course, that anything you found
2 significant or out of the ordinary became
3 significant to us, obviously?
4 A. That's right. Yeah.
5 MR. WOOD: You did misspeak, just
6 for the record. You meant to say JonBenet
7 received it, not that John received it.
8 MR. LEVIN: That's correct. I
9 don't think John won a Little Miss Christmas
10 pageant.
11 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
12 that.
13 MR. WOOD: No, and it's
14 unfortunate what you asked him in the
15 question says that he did.
The fact is that the bear WAS given to JonBenét at that pageant. The woman who put together that pageant remembered buying that bear and giving it to Jonbenét and she came forward with that information. A video proved she was right.
The woman spoke to me directly and told me the kids all got a ton of loot when they entered the pageants - she was not at all surprised that the Ramseys wouldn't have remembered that bear months after the murder when they were finally shown the crime scene photos. But here we were in 2000 - and rather than simply tell the Ramseys that the bear was no longer a mystery, they handled it in this- - - well, adversarial manner - - that's how I would describe it. Is there any wonder the Ramseys had a hard time trusting these people? It didn't improve my view of cops - I can tell you that. the Ramseys were fortunate to have Lin there - he had a monitor in the room and was watching the transcript as it was typed - - it allowed him to pick up on a lot of details before they got lost. Glad he spoke up so many times.
#3, RE: John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 06:13 PM
In response to message #2
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-03 AT 06:39 PM (EST)
47
17 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Mr. Ramsey, at the
18 present time, how much money is in the
19 JonBenet Ramsey Foundation?
20 A. I believe that is public record,
21 but I think there is about $7,000 in there.
22 Q. What is the highest balance that
23 you know of that it has been?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Have you done any fundraisers to 48
1 fund it?
2 A. No. It wasn't our intention to
3 raise public money. I set up a foundation
4 for my other daughter, which still exists, by
5 the way. We were desperate to honor our
6 daughter in some way, and that was our
7 attempt to do it, and why we have been
8 criticized for that, I don't know.
9 Q. You put out a press release that
10 gave an address for contributions to be made
11 to the foundation.
12 A. I don't remember ever asking for
13 contributions.
14 MR. WOOD: Do you have a copy of
15 the press release?
16 MR. KANE: Yes. As a matter of
17 fact, I do.
18 MR. WOOD: Why don't you let him
19 see it.
20 THE WITNESS: I would like to see
21 it.
22 MR. KANE: I have what the Denver
23 Post has published as coming from your press
24 release.
25 MR. LEVIN: While he gets booted 49
1 up on that just so that we don't waste time,
2 how about if I ask him questions on another
3 matter? Does that work for you procedurally?
4 MR. WOOD: Sure.
5 THE WITNESS: Can I respond to
6 that though?
7 MR. WOOD: Go ahead, John.
8 THE WITNESS: I am offended, and
9 I have been offended. I have been offended
10 that you investigated that foundation during
11 the grand jury. I have a mind to disband
12 it and treat it just as a private -- we
13 want to honor our daughter, and we have
14 received nothing but grief from you folks,
15 from the media over that attempt, and I am
16 baffled by that.
17 Q. (By Mr. Kane) I'll get it, but
18 I want to follow up on that, you made an
19 application for it to be a 503(C) charitable
20 foundation, haven't you?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. WOOD: I think it actually
23 has been so designated.
24 MR. KANE: Has it been? That
25 was what I was going to ask you. 50
1 THE WITNESS: Yes.
2 MR. WOOD: There was a mistake in
3 the book jacket cover that indicated an
4 application had been made. An application
5 for tax exempt status has been submitted, and
6 I remember someone called it to the attention
7 of the publisher that, in fact, it had been
8 granted. I don't sit here and represent
9 that I have seen it, but I do know that
10 information.
11 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Has any, to your
12 knowledge, any of the money that ever has
13 been in that foundation ever been given to
14 any charitable --
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. -- or social --
17 A. Not to the level we would have
18 hoped. I mean, our original plan was that we
19 were going to sue the hell out of the
20 tabloids and donate it all to the foundation
21 and do some very significant things. That
22 has been a tough process.
23 So we have not been able to do
24 with it what we hoped, but I hope some day
25 we can. 51
1 Q. You did get money from the
2 public, though, that came in?
3 A. Very, very little. I got -- the
4 most significant donations I got were from
5 two friends. One was the president of
6 Lockheed-Martin, sent $1,000, and my boss
7 sent $1,000. We probably received a few
8 very small checks. Another conversation that went directly to the point - advanced the investigation and got us ever so much closer to identifying the killer - - NOT!@%$^&%(%(&*!!!! I read the questions and wonder who was benefitting from these questions - - what was the point - - who came up with this crap and decided to waste time going to Atlanta on this lame errand. (Sorry, but I really hoped Kane and CO was going to go to the Ramseys in an effort to share information and solve this. This is more like the spider and fly having a tea party - - the killer wasn't the target.) Back to the transcript - - later on, more than 10 pages later, after Kane had ample time to find the press release he claimed was in his computer, we have this exchange. 63
16 MR. WOOD: Did we ever find it?
17 MR. KANE: No. I can't put my
18 finger on it. I will send it to you.
19 THE WITNESS: Well, we have
20 never, knowingly to me, ever solicited any
21 funds from the public.
22 It was not the intent and is not
23 the intent. In fact, we may even not accept
24 funds from the public because of the
25 innuendoes that seem to be cast upon that. 64
1 MR. WOOD: So that we are clear,
2 too, and Mr. Kane, you do not have this
3 alleged --
4 MR. KANE: I have --
5 MR. WOOD: Excuse me, let me
6 finish.
7 MR. KANE: Okay.
8 MR. WOOD: You do not have as
9 you represented or at least thought, you do
10 not have here today this public relations ad
11 or whatever you called it claiming that John
12 and Patsy were soliciting public funds? You
13 said you would look for it, and send it to
14 me.
15 MR. KANE: Yes. It is on my
16 computer somewhere, and I can't find it. Another bluff? I think so. The fund was there, anyone could donate, but there was no soliciting, no campaign that I remember. I made a small donation - it wasn't because anyone asked me to. I just sent it to John and trusted he would do the right thing with it.
#4, RE: John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 06:17 PM
In response to message #3
51
9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) While Mr. Kane is
10 looking for that on his computer, Mr. Ramsey,
11 I am interested, and this is concerning
12 events, obviously, that precede 1998, but it
13 is based on information developed after the
14 grand jury was convened. I am interested,
15 if you would, please tell us what types, if
16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept
17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,
18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by
19 their location.
20 A. I don't remember that I owned any
21 work gloves. I don't normally wear work
22 gloves.
23 Q. So just to clarify, you are
24 saying that your recollection is that you did
25 not or you are just unsure because of the 52
1 passage of time?
2 A. I don't remember. I mean, I
3 don't normally wear work gloves. I've had
4 work gloves from time to time, but I
5 don't -- I can't specifically remember that I
6 had any then or if I did what they were
7 like.
8 I had a pair here that were gray,
9 and I bought those at Home Depot, and God
10 knows where they are now. So they kind of
11 come and go.
12 Q. So it wasn't your routine habit
13 or practice to keep a pair of work gloves in
14 your cars if you needed to change a tire
15 or --
16 A. (Witness shook head negatively).
17 Q. -- or on your plane if you needed
18 to do something where you would kind of get
19 dirtied up?
20 A. No. I am not qualified to work
21 on my airplane, my former airplane.
22 MR. WOOD: Do you have the PR
23 statement, Mr. Kane?
24 MR. KANE: No. It's still
25 booting up. 53
1 MR. WOOD: Okay. I believe this was Kane's way of approaching the light brown fibers found at the crime scene. Note that he was just fishing to find out from John if HE had any of those gloves. There was no effort to ask John if he knew anyone who used those gloves. Honestly, maybe if Kane explained that they thought the killer wore those gloves... maybe he would have remembered someone owning them - - like the housekeeper or her husband - - or the gardner, or the decorators, or the plumber or the.... whatever - you get the idea. Maybe we shouldgo through and make a list of the questions we think should have been asked - - and were not.
#5, RE: John in Atlanta 4
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-03 at 06:24 PM
In response to message #4
53
2 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, during
3 the evening of December 25th, was there a
4 time when either, after JonBenet got dressed
5 to leave for the White's house or while she
6 was at the White's house or after you came
7 home from the White's house, she had any
8 problems going to the bathroom or problems
9 with her clothes that you may have helped
10 her with?
11 A. I don't remember. I really do
12 not.
13 Q. If I may follow --
14 A. It is possible. I don't know.
15 Q. If I can follow it up just to
16 clarify, when you say you don't remember,
17 does that mean, as you sit here today, your
18 best recollection is no or you don't know
19 yes or no?
20 A. I don't remember. It was three
21 and a half years ago.
22 Q. I understand that. I was just
23 trying to clarify your answer.
24 A. I don't know. I just don't
25 remember. 54
1 Q. One way or the other?
2 A. One way or the other.
3 MR. LEVIN: Mike, do you have
4 other questions while your computer is
5 humming?
6 MR. KANE: No. Two things - why would a parent remember such a detail? It had been so long before. These questions should have been asked earlier - at the April 1997 interview, the 1998 interrogations - - or in writing through the lawyers at almost any time... I can't remember what my kid was for Halloween three years ago - - I sure don't think it is fair to expect John to remember that detail. (and in all fairness, if he DID remember something.... if he said she did need help wiping herself that night, that he remembered that detail - - - some people would say remembering what is an everyday chore of a parent is not normal - - and since it was wiping her, the BORG would say that was proof of perversion - we all know that.)
#6, The bear....
Posted by Maikai on Nov-02-03 at 10:35 PM
In response to message #5
Mr. Levin: That's correct. I don't think John won a Little Miss Christmas pageant.So...was that last sentence really necessary? Sounds sarcastic to me.
#7, RE: The bear....
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-03 at 08:43 AM
In response to message #6
The mood in the room is clear from the transcripts. I am not going to give any of the lawyers a pass on contributing... but I see the 7 member lynch mob as being far more at fault. Lin was protecting his clients, had Kane and Company gone in there in a sincere effort to work WITH the Ramseys and not try to nail them - - the whole thing could have been so different.
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