#0, Patsy in Atlanta 16 - lawyer talk
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 10:43 AM
John Ramsey was in the room now - it appeared K&C had decided to move away from Patsy and on to John - - but that didn't happen.... you will see....
234
1 (Mr. Morrissey is no longer
2 present).
3 MR. WOOD: It is my
4 understanding, and, Chief Beckner, correct me
5 if I am wrong, I will try to state it and
6 see if we can get at least an accurate
7 record of the ending of Patsy's interview.
8 It is my understanding that the
9 only area that you did not cover with Patsy
10 Ramsey that you wanted to discuss with her
11 today was the area of Burke's security.
12 Other than the issue of the fiber results
13 that we discussed right after lunch and just
14 before lunch that we talked about we can
15 address and perhaps come back and be able to
16 deal with another day.
17 CHIEF BECKNER: Correct.
So they had agreed to get back to the fibers later - Lin wanted to see a report - didn't want his clients responding to hypothetical questions that could be based on misrepresentations - - sounds right to me.
And the only other thing K&C wanted to talk about was the security surrounding Burke after the murder? WHAT??? That's all they had on their minds? How about all the tips they had goeen inthe past 2 years - - why weren't they asking about those people by name - showing photos and asking if John or Patsy had ever seen that person near their house? How about the man who worked in their house who ended up a known pedophile? No one showed his photo and asked about him? How about the Candy cane questions - - were all the candy canes in the yard on Christmas day or might one have been taken before? How about questions about Fleet White's company - - how they were around the kids - especially JonBenét? I can think of a thousand questions - - and they were worried about Burke's security after the murder? Good grief!
#1, RE: Patsy in Atlanta 16 - lawyer talk
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 10:46 AM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-03 AT 10:47 AM (EST)
18 MR. WOOD: And you decided,
19 because of my questions that resulted in the
20 colloquy of counsel, that you do not wish to
21 complete your questioning of Patsy on the
22 issue of Burke's security, but it is my
23 understanding that that was it in terms of
24 what you wanted to talk to her about today
25 is what you told me in the hallway, isn't 235
1 it? Didn't you tell me that in the hall?
2 CHIEF BECKNER: I told you that
3 there was no reason to go further with
4 Patsy. That was the consensus of the group.
5 MR. WOOD: Well, I thought you
6 told me -- but, Chief, you told me the only
7 areas you had to wrap up with her anyway was
8 the security and the fibers. The fibers we
9 already agreed to disagree for the moment
10 with the chance of resolution. Didn't you
11 tell me that?
12 CHIEF BECKNER: I don't know that
13 I was that clear, and if I was, then I
14 apologize. GEEEZ!!!!! He didn't intend to be that clear? Is that revealing or what? Bottom line is K&C wasn't getting a confession - Lin wasn't letting them badger the witnesses and was going to make them ask the kinds of questions they said they would be asking - - so the consensus of the group was that they were getting nothing accomplished and should just stop talking to Patsy. And we were all sitting at home watching TV for some news - - hoping something positive might come from the meeting - - we were betrayed. The cops weren't there to solve this - - not unless it was a BORG solution.
#2, RE: Patsy in Atlanta 16 - lawyer talk
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 11:19 AM
In response to message #1
15 MR. WOOD: What other areas are
16 there that you have to talk to Patsy Ramsey
17 about? And if so, I want to make sure you
18 understand, she is here, she is available,
19 she is ready. The only question we had that
20 has come up that has been an area to defer
21 has been the area of the fibers.
22 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, let me
23 address that issue, if I might, with you.
24 We did have an opportunity, because it was
25 left up in the air as to whether or not we 236
1 would provide you with reports from our
2 forensic experts, and we have discussed that,
3 and we are not going to do that. And I
4 understand that you will not permit her
5 without seeing those reports, to answer those
6 question, which we understand.
7 CHIEF BECKNER: I will also say
8 that was not a condition prior to this
9 interview, that you had to see police reports
10 or lab reports in order to answer questions
11 based on evidence.
12 MR. WOOD: No, no, no. The idea
13 never was discussed. I mean, it's not a
14 condition now.
15 CHIEF BECKNER: So it was not a
16 condition.
17 MR. WOOD: And it's not a
18 condition now. I simply said that it would
19 be unfair to have a witness speculate about
20 a scenario's explanation based on a
21 representation of the significance of a
22 forensic test on the fibers when it seems to
23 me very simple, if you're going to sit here
24 and say that it appears to be her jacket, a
25 fiber from her jacket, and we are trying to 237
1 figure out what "appears to be" means because
2 it was one of the weak areas of evidence in
3 the law, fiber evidence when you are talking
4 about appears to be and similarities, that,
5 you know, with all due respect, I wanted to
6 see not the full report, just the conclusion
7 of the person that did the test to find out
8 if that is really an accurate
9 characterization.
10 And based on knowing that, in
11 terms of it being in the examiner's words
12 versus the prosecutor's words, we might very
13 well be able to answer the question. That's
14 not a condition. That's a fair request.
15 You all don't want to be unfair, I wouldn't
16 think.
17 CHIEF BECKNER: Well, it is a
18 condition, whether you think it is fair or
19 unfair.
20 MR. WOOD: You all throw around
21 the word condition. If I ask a question, it
22 becomes a condition. If I ask a question,
23 in this man's mind, Mr. Kane's, it becomes
24 an objection or instruction not to answer,
25 which this record will not bear out. I agree with Lin - - K&C were under no obligation to tell the truth in an interview - they were not trusted because of past behavior - the lab reports could have - and should have - been shared. Kane was not interested in following new leads - he wanted some confession - and there was nothing to confess.
#4, RE: Patsy in Atlanta 16 - lawyer talk
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 11:39 AM
In response to message #2
Wood continues: 238
1 I mean, if you're telling me you
2 have other areas for Patsy Ramsey and it's
3 not what you just represented to me in the
4 hallway, and I don't know if you were there
5 or not, Ollie, but, Chief, you told me that
6 was all you wanted to ask about anyway was
7 the security and then the fibers and you
8 were done.
9 And you know, then I said, if
10 that's the case, let's make that record and
11 we will move on to John, but now Mr. Kane
12 is saying there are other areas.
13 MR. KANE: Well, I think given
14 the fact that you put on three types of
15 objections during the questioning, and let me
16 just answer, the three objections that you
17 raised are no question that has been covered
18 before, and we have no problem with that
19 from the very beginning, we don't want to
20 plow old ground.
21 MR. WOOD: Don't fault me for
22 that one.Right - they didn't need to ask the Ramseys about things they had covered in the 1997 and 1998 interviews - they had the answers to those questions. They said they had new questions - - so bring them on. 23 MR. KANE: No, I am not. But
24 there were two others that became clear
25 today. And one was that you wouldn't 239
1 entertain any question that involved
2 information that was available to us before
3 June of 1998 but not asked, and you made
4 that specific --
5 MR. WOOD: Don't fault me for
6 that one because I read the Chief's
7 letter --
8 MR. KANE: Let me finish.
9 MR. WOOD: You are making it
10 sound like I did something wrong. All I'm
11 doing is stating what we agreed to.
12 MR. KANE: No. Well, see that's
13 where we had the disagreement.
14 MR. WOOD: Have I misread this
15 letter?
16 MR. KANE: That's where we have a
17 disagreement.
18 MR. WOOD: I am reading the
19 letter that says, of July 13th, I think it's
20 mis-dated June 13th --
21 MR. KANE: Lin, Lin, you've
22 already made a record of this. We don't
23 need to, we don't need to hash this out.
24 MR. WOOD: You are accusing me of
25 doing something improper in my objection and 240
1 yet you won't --
2 MR. KANE: I am just stating, no,
3 I am saying that's what you're interpreting
4 your letter to mean that no question that
5 could have been asked before June of 1998
6 that wasn't asked.
7 MR. WOOD: That is what it says.
8 MR. KANE: Okay. That's all I
9 am saying.
10 MR. WOOD: It says our intent was
11 not to rehash old questions but that we
12 still had new questions over prior evidence
13 based on new information and additional
14 forensic testing. Asking old questions would
15 be a waste of our time.
16 That's what the Chief told me he
17 wanted to do. Now you're making a record
18 that says I'm somehow improper in objecting.
19 MR. KANE: I am saying that's
20 your -- no, I'm saying that's your
21 interpretation of it.
22 MR. WOOD: It is plain language.
23 MR. KANE: We are debating an
24 abstract of that. "debating an abstract"???? What the hell? I wonder if that is a quote - would seem to be: our intent was
11 not to rehash old questions but that we
12 still had new questions over prior evidence
13 based on new information and additional
14 forensic testing. Asking old questions would
15 be a waste of our time. If that is what Beckner said - - seems damn clear to me.
#3, What kind of provisions were there
Posted by Maikai on Nov-11-03 at 11:26 AM
In response to message #1
about releasing the tapes/transcripts of the meeting to the public? Obviously, since excerpts are being posted, there must not have been any kind of confidentiality agreement signed, right? Kane even accused LW of posturing. It appears to me, the whole line of questioning by Kane and company was geared to information they didn't mind being released. How could they discuss any new information if it was possible it could be released to the public? If it was suppose to be a give and take type session, then why was it so one-sided?
#5, RE: What kind of provisions were there
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 11:41 AM
In response to message #3
I don't know why these transcripts are being released now - I am not part of that process.
#6, more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 12:05 PM
In response to message #5
25 CHIEF BECKNER: In interpreting 241
1 that, you are interpreting it differently.
2 Over prior evidence, prior evidence can be at
3 any time.
4 MR. WOOD: But prior evidence
5 based on new information and additional
6 forensic information.
7 CHIEF BECKNER: Sure.
8 MR. WOOD: You can't leave that
9 out.
10 CHIEF BECKNER: No, I know. But
11 you develop new information on old evidence
12 oftentimes as we continue the investigation.
13 MR. WOOD: And we got into the
14 question about Linda Arndt on a meeting with
15 her in February of '97, and I asked about
16 whether that was based on new information or
17 additional forensic testing, which wouldn't
18 apply, and it seemed to me that Mitch
19 Morrissey was getting ready to show us
20 something in the book and then you all
21 didn't want to go there. Seems to me that K&C didn't want to share, brainstorm - - a shame as it COULD have been useful.
22 CHIEF BECKNER: Without debating
23 that particular issue, I just want to make
24 clear that --
25 MR. WOOD: Let me tell you
242
1 something, I know exactly what we came here
2 to do, there's no doubt in my mind, it was
3 documented by our letters. My clients are
4 willing to do it. Patsy Ramsey is willing
5 to complete any areas within what you ask
6 and we agreed to do.
7 MR. KANE: Okay. No. All I am
8 saying --
9 MR. WOOD: And if you're really
10 telling me now that you've got a number of
11 other areas for Patsy, different as I
12 understood what you told me in the hall,
13 Chief, and maybe I misunderstood, I thought I
14 did understood. But I'll --
15 CHIEF BECKNER: I said they
16 didn't have any additional questions, and
17 without the explanation it goes beyond that.
18 MR. WOOD: Well, do you have any
19 areas for Patsy Ramsey other than the
20 security of Burke when he returned to school
21 or what we've already made I think a clear
22 record on about the fibers?
23 MR. KANE: Yes, absolutely.
24 MR. WOOD: Well, why don't we get
25 her back in here and finish. Beckner and Kane are clearly on different pages.
243
1 MR. KANE: Fine, as long as
2 you're not going to object, but if are you
3 going to object and say, if the question
4 could have been asked in June of '98 but it
5 wasn't and the information that would have
6 prompted that question was available in June
7 of '98, but the question wasn't asked, if
8 that's going to be your objection, then, no,
9 I don't, but if that's the way you are
10 interpreting what is agreed to --
11 MR. WOOD: Why don't you, Mr.
12 Kane, why don't you just state in plain
13 English what you want to do. I thought it
14 was clear as a bell from Chief Beckner's
15 letters that you wanted to ask these new
16 questions based on new information or
17 information developed since June of 1998.
18 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, let me,
19 I'll make this --
20 MR. WOOD: That is what the
21 letter says.
22 MR. LEVIN: -- I will make this
23 as clear as possible.
24 MR. WOOD: That would help. Yes, someone needs to explain - Beckner seems to be confused and Kane is being a jerk. 25 MR. LEVIN: What we want to do 244
1 is we would like to ask some questions of
2 John Ramsey. The reason why we choose to
3 ask additional or not additional questions of
4 Patsy is not going to be productive to go
5 back and forth. Kane, Levin and the absent Morrissey were all on the same page, from what I understand. Too bad this interview hadto include them - I think it would have been far moreproductive if Smit, Hofstrom and Demuth had been there instead.
6 MR. WOOD: It is going to
7 determine whether we can legitimately move
8 forward with John. If you are going to walk
9 out, in effect, of Patsy's interview, what's
10 the difference? I am going to take the same
11 position with John.
12 MR. LEVIN: For whatever
13 reason --
14 MR. WOOD: I am going to make
15 you live up to what you said you came here
16 to do.
17 MR. KANE: We keep debating.
18 Okay. You're not even interpreting --
19 MR. WOOD: Why don't you leave
20 for a minute and let the lawyers work this
21 out, John.
22 (Mr. Ramsey leaves the deposition
23 room).
Lin is right - they would have been walking out on the opportunity to interview Patsy - a very stupid move. But when I see the amount of time that was spent asking real questions that might have helped solve this crime - - - it was a stupid interview all around anyway.
#7, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 12:13 PM
In response to message #6
244
24 MR. WOOD: It's just not fair for
25 John and Patsy to sit here and listen to us 245
1 haggle back and forth.
2 Let me say this, Michael, it
3 makes no sense to me at all that you don't
4 want to finish with Patsy.
5 MR. KANE: It makes no sense at
6 all --
7 MR. WOOD: Make your record.
8 MR. KANE: It makes no sense to
9 me at all that you were going to object when
10 we ask the question that could have been
11 ask -- is this not what your objection is?
12 Please. Tell me.
13 I think you have raised three
14 objections. We already went over the first
15 one, nothing that was covered before. But
16 the other two objections that you've raised
17 are nothing that involved information that
18 was available in June of '98 but that we
19 didn't ask a question about.
20 In other words, we are not going
21 to get a second bite of the apple, something
22 that could have been asked in June of 1998.
23 Is that your objection? Is that how you are
24 interpreting that?
25 MR. WOOD: I really, with -- 246
1 MR. KANE: Is it or isn't it?
2 Because if it's not the way you are
3 interpreting it, let me ask the question.
4 MR. WOOD: I told you I accepted
5 on the face of what Chief Beckner asked us
6 to do, and I think he put it in writing and
7 I answered him back and said it, and this
8 whole idea was to deal with new questions
9 based on information developed since June of
10 1998.
11 MR. KANE: Right. And that's --
12 MR. WOOD: Now, that's what you
13 asked us to come here to do. John and
14 Patsy directed me to agree to that. That's
15 what they came in here prepared to do. It
16 seems like what's happened is you would like
17 to do more than that, and now you are upset
18 with me because I won't say okay, let's go
19 beyond what you asked for and they were
20 prepared to do.
21 MR. KANE: That's all I am saying
22 is we have a disagreement. We have a
23 disagreement.
24 MR. WOOD: Why are you stopping
25 it is what makes no sense. Maybe I will 247
1 object to 10 questions out of the next 100.
2 You will get 90 answers, Michael. Don't you
3 want those 90?
4 MR. KANE: Lin, that's not what
5 you're --
6 MR. WOOD: You came out here, we
7 are ready to do it. Don't you want the
8 information?
9 MR. KANE: Absolutely. So why
10 are you raising objections?
11 MR. WOOD: Why are you abandoning
12 the ability to --
13 MR. KANE: All I'm saying is that
14 I don't even know why we are having this
15 discussion.
16 MR. WOOD: Because you stormed --
17 you threatened to storm out of the room and
18 leave. You were packing your bag.
19 MR. KANE: We are having this
20 discussion because you said just a minute ago
21 that it's your understanding that we only had
22 one more area to cover, and I am telling
23 you, and I'm telling you --
24 MR. WOOD: I misunderstood what
25 Chief -- I think Chief Beckner will come 248
1 slightly to my defense in what I thought he
2 told me was not unreasonable.
3 CHIEF BECKNER: No, it is not.
4 MR. WOOD: It is not.
5 MR. KANE: Okay. That's fine.
6 That's fine. But all I am saying to you is
7 that that is not the case with me. Is that
8 I have a lot of other questions, but if you
9 are not going to, if you are going -- let
10 me finish.
11 If you are going to interpret
12 that, because it's not clear, if you are
13 going to interpret that to mean that no
14 question that could have been asked but
15 wasn't, then I have no further questions in
16 that area, particularly when the third
17 objection that you have raised is that we
18 now have to explain what the relevance of a
19 question is to further the investigation,
20 which was the last objection that you raised.
21 So given that, given that, those
22 conditions, no, there is nothing further that
23 we have of her.
24 Okay? I mean, now we've made our
25 record. 249
1 MR. WOOD: Well, I didn't come
2 here to make a record.
3 MR. KANE: That's exactly what
4 you said, that you want to make a record.
5 MR. WOOD: Well, I didn't come
6 here to make a record.
7 MR. KANE: Neither did I. I
8 came here to ask questions.
9 MR. WOOD: I may be forced to
10 make a record, which apparently I have been
11 forced to do so, but I didn't came here to
12 do it. I came here to present John and
13 Patsy Ramsey to you and the other six
14 interrogators to ask your questions and get
15 answers to move this investigation forward.
16 Okay?
17 Now, I thought it was very clear
18 what the request was. We spent some time
19 clarifying it. It's documented. It seems
20 to me that there shouldn't be any fighting
21 over it. Maybe it's not what you thought
22 coming in, Michael. Maybe you wanted more,
23 but that's not what I was asked to give, and
24 that's not what my clients came prepared to
25 give. And what your request was, Chief, I 250
1 thought and my clients thought, even though I
2 had my lawyer concerns, that they thought it
3 was reasonable and they would come here to
4 help.
5 I didn't make an objection about
6 Burke's security. I asked a question. And
7 I think it's a fair question. You could
8 have said, Mr. Wood, I am not going to
9 answer your question, and you could have
10 forged on --
11 MR. KANE: Which I did, and you
12 still didn't let her answer it. 250
12
13 MR. WOOD: I really think, I
14 really -- I don't think you're going to
15 find --
16 MR. LEVIN: Just hang on a
17 minute.
18 MR. WOOD: -- where I instructed
19 Patsy not to answer that question. I think
20 what happened is you took off after me
21 because you didn't like me asking you the
22 question.
23 MR. KANE: Whatever.
24 MR. WOOD: I just, I hear
25 everything you are saying, Michael, and with 251
1 all due respect, it makes no sense to me,
2 when we're here and Patsy is here, you
3 brought six people out from Colorado -- well,
4 six from Colorado, one from Pennsylvania, and
5 you say you got other subject matters.
6 Let's ask her the questions.
7 If you -- look, so what if
8 something comes up that as a lawyer I feel I
9 have to give her instruction to protect my
10 client's interests or to do what I think is
11 fair in terms of the parameters of the
12 agreement. You can't deny me that right.
13 It doesn't mean that you're still not going
14 to get information about things to do with
15 this investigation that I think you would
16 want to have.
17 But you are saying, Mr. Wood,
18 unless you agree to let her answer every
19 question, even if you think it's unfair or
20 outside the scope of the agreement, we are
21 not going to ask her any questions. That,
22 Michael, makes no sense to me, and I don't
23 think it makes sense to any reasonable
24 person. I agree, Lin - - let's get to questions that will advance the investigation and identify the killer.
#8, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 12:17 PM
In response to message #7
251
24
25 MR. KANE: Do you remember the 252
1 letter I sent to you?
2 MR. WOOD: I do. Painfully
3 remember.
4 MR. KANE: And where I said, you
5 will remember, we object, Chief Beckner and I
6 object to your placing a condition that as
7 long as the questions are fair and objective,
8 and I said that definition can be used to
9 exclude anything.
10 MR. WOOD: You haven't been
11 excluded on hardly anything here today.
12 MR. KANE: And you wrote -- and
13 then you called me, and then you wrote the
14 next day. You called me and said you're
15 misinterpreting what I am saying.
16 MR. WOOD: You were. You are
17 misinterpreting what is happening here today.
18 MR. KANE: You assured us, you
19 assured us that was not designed and it was
20 not going to be used to exclude questions.
21 Look, you made your record. I made my
22 record. There really is no record here.
23 This isn't a deposition.
24 MR. WOOD: I'm not, but I'm
25 not -- 253
1 MR. KANE: We don't have a judge
2 that we can go to with a motion to compel.
3 Okay? We are used to civil cases, I think,
4 you and I. We are not in front of a --
5 this is simply questioning of individuals,
6 and there is no reason to --
7 MR. WOOD: I still haven't heard
8 a reason why you don't want to ask Patsy
9 other questions.
10 MR. KANE: I stated my position,
11 you stated your position, so I have no
12 further questions based on what I stated.
13 MR. WOOD: I am not sure what
14 you stated.
15 MR. KANE: It doesn't matter.
16 MR. WOOD: It does matter. It
17 does matter. It does matter.
18 MR. KANE: Oh, Jesus, Lin. Let's
19 go, guys.
20 MR. WOOD: I sat here for a day,
21 Michael --
22 MR. KANE: Let's go.
23 CHIEF BECKNER: Take five.
24 MR. KANE: We're going to take
25 five. 254
1 CHIEF BECKNER: Let's take five.
2 MR. KANE: We are going to take
3 five. How much time is being wasted on this crap? How many times is Kane going to threaten to leave? Me, I wished he would go and leave Beckner behind - maybe an honest conversation between Beckner and the Ramseys would salvage something for the day - - but that didn't happen. (Sadly I remember Beckner refusing an invitation to sit with the Ramseys - face to face - no lawyers at all - - said he wouldn't sit with suspects like that. Oh this was such a mess.
#9, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 12:40 PM
In response to message #8
254
3
4 MR. WOOD: Stay on the record.
5 I will say what I was going to say and we
6 will come back and get going one way or the
7 other.
8 MR. KANE: Could we have a
9 conference here?
10 MR. WOOD: I mean --
11 MR. KANE: You just said you --
12 come on, Lin, five minutes ago you said I
13 will extend the courtesy to you.
14 MR. WOOD: I think you came here
15 to leave. I don't think you came here to
16 question.
17 MR. KANE: I came here to ask
18 questions, and I thought they had been
19 answered --
20 MR. WOOD: You have got them, you
21 got them all, you got them, you got them,
22 and now I am offering you more and you don't
23 want them.
24 MR. KANE: Lin, I'm not going to
25 debate the point. I'm not going to debate 255
1 the point. You have your interpretation.
2 You have your spin.
3 MR. WOOD: I don't have spin.
4 MR. KANE: That is what it is.
5 MR. WOOD: Listen to me, I don't
6 have spin.
7 MR. KANE: Don't point.
8 MR. WOOD: I told you a minute
9 ago, I do point occasionally. I don't have
10 spin.
11 MR. KANE: Okay. It doesn't
12 matter.
13 MR. WOOD: You people put a spin
14 in this thing for three and a half years
15 before I ever get involved with this thing.
16 MR. KANE: I have never ever,
17 ever -- the only time I have gone on the
18 public record in this case, Lin, was to
19 clear your client, Burke Ramsey, and to tell
20 the world that it was outrageous what they
21 did to Burke Ramsey, and you settled for
22 probably millions a week later. So don't
23 ever say that we spun anything. You're on
24 every nightly television show for the past
25 two weeks telling the public -- 256
1 MR. WOOD: That is a total
2 exaggeration of the truth. I was on one
3 series of days.
4 MR. KANE: -- telling the public
5 that you're here to say -- you are here,
6 that your clients, against your advice, are
7 going to answer any question, and we are
8 finding out that is not the case.
9 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Kane, let me
10 interrupt for a second. Mr. Wood, let's --
11 MR. WOOD: By the way, I didn't
12 settle the case in December when your
13 interview was published. It settled several
14 months after.
15 MR. KANE: Right. After I made
16 the statement. Yeah.
17 MR. WOOD: And I appreciated your
18 candor with respect to that interview, and I
19 so stated to you.
20 MR. KANE: But it's the only time
21 I've ever said anything publicly.
22 MR. WOOD: I painted too broad of
23 a brush when I said you all. You all
24 probably meant the Boulder Police Department,
25 at times the Boulder district attorney, 257
1 former members of the police department.
2 MR. KANE: Nobody present here.
3 MR. WOOD: It's hard for me
4 to -- well, I am not going to agree with
5 that. It's hard for me to sit here and be
6 accused of spin when all I do is turn on
7 Good Morning America and get spin --
8 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Wood, I've
9 been --
10 MR. WOOD: -- from the other
11 side.
12 MR. LEVIN: I am sorry, I did
13 not mean to interrupt you. Are you
14 finished?
15 MR. WOOD: Yes, for the moment. Well, at least we know that K&C wasn't after Burke - - someone share this with Spade, OK?
#10, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 12:47 PM
In response to message #9
257
15
16 MR. LEVIN: This is the bottom
17 line. The bottom line is, for whatever
18 reason, we have made a decision that we no
19 longer wish to ask questions of your client,
20 Mrs. Ramsey. We are asking you if we may
21 begin to ask questions of John Ramsey,
22 regardless of whatever is going on in your
23 mind -- and no one is accusing you of any
24 misconduct or ill purpose in any way, shape,
25 or form -- all we are saying is we would 258
1 like to begin questioning John. And we can
2 do --
3 MR. WOOD: And I would like you
4 to finish with Patsy.
5 MR. LEVIN: I understand that.
6 We are finished with Patsy for whatever
7 reason, and we stated what we believe is our
8 reasons. We will not state any more. We
9 would like to start questioning John --
10 MR. WOOD: It is 4:15.
11 MR. LEVIN: -- if we can do
12 that, we will do that.
13 MR. WOOD: It is 4:15. I am
14 tired. I spent more time talking today than
15 I thought I would have to. Why don't we
16 come back at 9:00 and get John in the
17 morning if that works. I mean, that seems
18 to me reasonable.
19 MR. KANE: It is a quarter to,
20 we've taken a break every hour. We have
21 taken an hour and a half.
22 MR. WOOD: I am going to talk to
23 John and Patsy and make a decision whether
24 or not, when you come in here and you create
25 what I think is an artificial record to 259
1 somehow justify --
2 MR. KANE: Okay. Go ahead. Go
3 ahead, Lin.
4 MR. LEVIN: Would you give us a
5 couple of minutes to collectively discuss
6 your timing proposal, please, sir?
7 MR. WOOD: Okay. Let me have a
8 couple of minutes while you are doing that
9 to make sure because I have spoken without
10 talking to John and Patsy.
11 MR. LEVIN: We understand.
12 MR. WOOD: Let me finish this by
13 saying something to you, Michael. I don't
14 know your background, but we are all trying
15 to do our jobs, and I am not going to laugh
16 at you. If you want to laugh when I say
17 something, that is your prerogative. I just
18 don't think that's productive because I
19 think, of all the people, of all the
20 people --
21 MR. KANE: You are doing your
22 job.
23 MR. WOOD: -- who get involved,
24 well I -- doing my job is not to laugh at
25 another professional. 260
1 But I think that, of all of the
2 people who have been involved with this, that
3 I have tried more, whether you think I have
4 done everything that you wanted me to do, I
5 think I have been on the phone and I have
6 made a greater effort to try to get your
7 side and my side together than anybody else.
8 That doesn't fault anyone else
9 involved. They made very good decisions in
10 my judgment for their reasons. I don't
11 criticize any other lawyer in this case. I
12 only speak for myself. And I think that I
13 have tried to be extremely reasonable. And
14 I didn't physically block the door for John
15 and Patsy to come in here. I didn't feel
16 good about it. You know that one of the
17 reasons that I didn't feel good about it was
18 because you were going to be involved.
19 I went to the Chief after your
20 letters and our discussions and I said I
21 have some real concerns about Michael Kane's
22 objectivity, and I think it might be better
23 if he were not involved, and I was told that
24 your involvement would be a deal breaker.
25 Either you got to be involved or nobody 261
1 wanted to talk to John and Patsy.
2 And I've got to tell you, with
3 all due respect again -- I hate to use that
4 phrase because usually you figure something
5 bad is coming, and it usually does -- I
6 think you came here on a self-fulfilling
7 prophecy. I think you came in here ready to
8 jump on me the minute I opened my mouth.
9 If I made a request, it was going to be
10 called a condition. If I asked a question,
11 it would be deemed an objection. You kept
12 trying to get me to say that I was
13 instructing Patsy not to answer, and I don't
14 think that is what I have done.
15 I'll tell you this, if I did it,
16 boy, I am going to be unhappy with myself
17 because I sure didn't mean to do it. I
18 wanted to facilitate your getting these
19 questions answered. I still would like to
20 do that. You haven't gotten on the plane to
21 go back yet. I think it is still serves a
22 purpose to try to sit here and answer some
23 questions.
24 So you all talk about timing, let
25 me talk to John and Patsy, and let's see if 262
1 there is any place to go. I hope there is.
2 I hope we can still go forward and be
3 productive. Okay?
4 (WHEREUPON, a brief recess was
5 taken.) Lin identified Kane as a problem before the interview - asked to do it without Kane - there was no compromise, Kane would be there or no interview (kind of tells you how badly LE wanted this talk - - very interesting.) Well, Kane is there, they got it their way - and look at what is happening - - Kane is the focus of much of this time - - I wonder if they remember JonBenét at all when they are going at it like this. Her killer had nothing to fear then. I hope he understands things are different - K&C are gone - - now it is Tom Bennett and Lou Smit he has to be worried about - - and they don't play these games.
#11, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 01:14 PM
In response to message #10
John and Patsy were in the room when they resumed...
262
5
6 MR. WOOD: Everybody ready? I
7 don't know what you all decided, but I have
8 spoken with John and Patsy. It was your
9 condition, Chief and Mr. Kane, that Patsy
10 Ramsey be finished first before John Ramsey
11 was interviewed.
Someone explain why, please?
It is my understanding that
12 you've got a number of areas to inquire of
13 Patsy Ramsey. She is here, and we are
14 prepared to go forward and complete her,
15 understanding that the fiber issue is one
16 that we would, although you say you have
17 made your decision, I would urge to you
18 reflect upon it, perhaps reconsider it.
19 But we are here for any and all
20 other areas, but in all fairness to my
21 clients, after you imposed this condition, I
22 think it is proper that you finish with
23 Patsy Ramsey before you do John Ramsey. And
24 if you are unwilling to do that, then
25 unfortunately your decision will end this 263
1 day. So I will ask John to step out. I
2 will let Patsy finish. It's your call. Good boy - - if they walked out on Patsy's interview - - unfinished - - they walked out on everything. 3 CHIEF BECKNER: If you have no
4 other questions, then you have no other
5 questions.
6 MR. WOOD: If you are willing to
7 stipulate that you had no further questions
8 beyond the security and the fibers that we've
9 already talked about ad nauseam, pardon my
10 language, I think that is probably accurate,
11 then John can go forward, but if you are
12 telling me you have other questions, but for
13 the reasons you've stated you are not going
14 to ask them today, then we are done because
15 I am going to insist that you live up to
16 your demand that Patsy go first and be
17 finished. I am not going to change my
18 position about my right to defend my clients
19 in what I think is a very clear
20 understanding of what we agreed to do at
21 your request.
22 MR. KANE: Given what I --
23 MR. WOOD: It is your call.
24 MR. KANE: -- said about the
25 parameters that you placed on it, I don't 264
1 have any further questions.
2 MR. LEVIN: And I am in the same
3 position.
4 MR. WOOD: But you acknowledge,
5 absent my parameters, you have other areas
6 for Patsy.
7 MR. KANE: Yes. Lin's rules were simply those agreed on before the meeting - - I don't see any problem. 8 MR. WOOD: Well, she's here.
9 We'll sit here for you to ask questions.
10 MR. KANE: Okay. Well, then let
11 me ask you this, are you going to raise
12 those objections?
13 MR. WOOD: I am going to continue
14 to make sure that we play by the rules you
15 all established, yes, sir.
16 MR. KANE: I mean, we are back
17 into the debate.
18 CHIEF BECKNER: Now that is not
19 fair if you say, based on those parameters
20 they don't have any further questions. I
21 don't know how it can be fair then to say,
22 well, go ahead and ask those questions
23 because you have parameters of what you are
24 going to let her answer.
25 MR. WOOD: I have not. That is 265
1 not true. The only thing that I have told
2 you that we will not answer today are the
3 issues of the fiber based on what I think
4 are potentially mischaracterizations of
5 laboratory results that I would like to have
6 verified just by the result itself so that
7 we could then know exactly what facts we are
8 testifying to as opposed to speculation on
9 issues that may be hypothetical and not based
10 in fact. And that's it. You won't find
11 where I've instructed her not to answer
12 another question.
13 So she is here. We are prepared
14 to go forward. You all insisted that there
15 was some mystical, magical reason that she
16 had to be finished before John could done,
17 and if you didn't finish her you didn't want
18 John. You either are going to do what you
19 said you're going to do, gentlemen, or we
20 are done.
21 CHIEF BECKNER: I don't know
22 where we ever said that.
23 MR. WOOD: Let me just say
24 this --
25 MR. WOOD: You said it was a 266
1 deal breaker, Patsy would go first or you
2 wouldn't take John --
3 MR. KANE: This is a just a
4 tennis game.
5 MR. WOOD: We assumed you
6 wanted --
7 CHIEF BECKNER: You assumed, but
8 you are stating as though there were some
9 statement somebody said that --
10 MR. WOOD: Were you telling me
11 you just wanted to start with her but not
12 finish before you started John?
13 CHIEF BECKNER: I didn't say
14 that.
15 MR. WOOD: Don't you think it is
16 a reasonable assumption, when you insist on
17 her going first, that I would have assumed
18 you were going to finish her before you did
19 John?
20 CHIEF BECKNER: Not necessarily.
21 MR. WOOD: Well, you changed --
22 CHIEF BECKNER: -- ask her some
23 additional questions.
24 MR. WOOD: You can have John and
25 Patsy back in an ongoing dialogue if we 267
1 weren't involved in this kind of stuff. But
2 this stuff is not going to be productive.
3 It is unfortunate, but as they say, it --
4 look, I do not believe that I ever agreed or
5 you requested that Patsy start, not finish,
6 John come back, Patsy come back. I don't
7 think it ever was going to be a ping pong
8 match with these people coming back and
9 forth.
10 I thought it was clear you wanted
11 her first or you wouldn't talk to either
12 one. I think it was a reasonable assumption
13 on my part that meant you would finish her
14 back to back as you called it, and then we
15 would move on with John.
16 Now you're telling me that's not
17 necessarily the case, then I really am
18 concerned about whether we can agree on
19 anything in terms of what you mean when you
20 talk plain and simple English. That is not
21 meant to be defensive.
22 CHIEF BECKNER: You said it was a
23 condition. That was never a condition.
24 MR. WOOD: It wasn't. It was an
25 assumption on my part, when you said you 268
1 wanted Patsy first, that we would finish her
2 and go back to back with John. I don't
3 think it was an unreasonable assumption on my
4 part.
5 But the point is, she is here,
6 you have got, as you say, Mr. Kane, a murder
7 you want to try to solve. You've all
8 represented that you need to ask her
9 questions. She may not be able to answer
10 all of them because I may feel like that
11 there are areas where I am not comfortable,
12 for legitimate reasons in my mind, we may
13 not reach agreement on the legitimacy of
14 those. I am comfortable with what I have
15 done so far. If you don't want the other
16 part, then just say so.
17 MR. KANE: I am not going to say
18 a word, Mr. Wood, because every time I say a
19 word, I hear a ten-minute speech.
20 MR. WOOD: Well, then I think
21 your characterization shows your lack of
22 objectivity. Do you want to ask questions
23 or not? Let's go. If you want to ask
24 them, ask the next question.
25 MR. KANE: Is Mr. Ramsey going to 269
1 step out?
2 MR. WOOD: All right.
3 (Mr. Ramsey leaves the room. ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The back and forth is giving me a headache - I actually think the cops should have set it up so they would interview both Ramseys (in no particular order) with a follow up for both. That sounds more reasonable to me - - but the way they are handling this - I don't think it would have mattered - this is going nowhere. The important thing here that I think everyone needs to remember is this bit based on a quote by Lin... Advise to all witnesses: "Do not answer questions based on potentially
mischaracterizations of statements or laboratory results. Insist
that they documented and verified so that everyone knowa
exactly what the facts are. otherwise you are speculating on
issues that may be hypothetical and not based in fact."
#12, RE: more
Posted by jameson on Nov-11-03 at 01:18 PM
In response to message #11
This is enough for today - they go back to talking to Patsy - and they right off get back to Burke's security when he went back to school - - a few interesting facts come out that were not public before - like that the Ramseys stayed with Mike Bynum for a short time - - but nothing in there is connected to the murder of jonbenét. It really is sad to read this transcript and know that the killer was not the targetof the discussion at all.
#13, RE: Burke
Posted by Margoo on Nov-11-03 at 03:00 PM
In response to message #12
16 MR. KANE: I have never ever,
17 ever -- the only time I have gone on the
18 public record in this case, Lin, was to
19 clear your client, Burke Ramsey, and to tell
20 the world that it was outrageous what they
21 did to Burke Ramsey, and you settled for
22 probably millions a week later. So don't
23 ever say that we spun anything. You're on
24 every nightly television show for the past
25 two weeks telling the public --Another confirmation that Burke was cleared... and by the Grand Jury special prosecutor! I guess that trashes BlueCrab's theory that the GJ concluded Burke did it, but were unable to do anything about it because of his age (a crazy theory from top to bottom anyway).
#14, RE: Patsy in Atlanta 16 - lawyer talk
Posted by one_eyed Jack on Nov-11-03 at 04:13 PM
In response to message #0
LINDA ARNDT Well, I have compassion that I bring to work. And compassion is not the same as empathy. Just simple courtesy towards people in this case just went out the window. Just was gone.ELIZABETH VARGAS Should there be courtesy when people are murder suspects? LINDA ARNDT Absolutely. I should show you respect. Does that mean I’m bonding with you? No. You want someone to talk to you, you establish trust. You show sincerity. And you can’t fake it, because people know when you’re insincere.
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